speaker 1Hey!astead herndonMom, this is Alisa. This is Anna.speaker 2Hi.astead herndonThey’re our producers on “The Run-Up.”speaker 1Hi.astead herndonAnd we’re so excited —speaker 1So nice to meet you. Come on in.speaker 2Hi. Thank you so much.astead herndonWhat’s the food?speaker 1Well, the food is turkey. We have smothered chicken, which is a traditional kind of a thing, smothered chicken with mashed potatoes.speaker 1And we also have a beef roast.speaker 2Low key. Very low key.speaker 3Yeah, yeah, just a little something slight, just a little turkey.speaker 4Now I could take the pound cake, and the ginger molasses I’m curious about.speaker 5You have your eye on that?speaker 4Yeah.speaker 6Let’s pray for the food. Lord, we thank —speaker 6Thank you, Lord, for Astead, “The Run-Up.” Thank you for all of the family, friends, who are here tonight. I pray you’ll bless the food, sanctify it and purify for the nourishment of our bodies.speaker 9I’m thankful for growth, growing and expanding.speaker 10I’m thankful for my right mind. Yeah.astead herndonI’m thankful to see everybody here. I mean, it’s really amazing to see this collection of people. And it really matters to me that you all are represented in what we’re doing about the election because this is a show that’s about giving dignity to people. And I think that’s a value that you all taught me. So thank you.speaker 14These weren’t from a box.speaker 15But they both kind of melt in your mouth, too, though.speaker 14Yes, it does.astead herndonWould you all consider yourselves Democrats?speaker 15Yes.speaker 16I do.astead herndonWhy do you think Black people have voted for Democrats in historically such high numbers?speaker 16Well, I think one reason, it seems like — and this is only my opinion — when you look at the Republican, it seems like they were in such a different bracket than what we were in.astead herndonIn what way?speaker 16Financially. It seemed like they were always on the top, and Democrat doesn’t mean that we’re on the bottom, though. But they just seem like they always seem so much higher than the Democrats.astead herndonIt seemed like Republicans care more about richer people.speaker 16Yeah, and they are more concerned about staying rich and we staying where we are, you know? It doesn’t seem like they ever want us to get to the plateau that we meet where they’re at.speaker 17I think also, in the Democratic Party, they have opened their arms to the point where maybe Black folks feel that it’s all inclusion. Although we might not agree with everything that the Democratic Party stands for, they don’t discriminate against homosexuals or if you’re poor or if you do have money. It’s more of a social thing whereas when you talk about the Republican parties, it’s about self.And so it’s like, how much more can I get? It was the haves and have nots. And so with Democrats, it was always — it was a hope. I think about Jesse Jackson. Keep hope alive, you know. And so the Democratic Party has always been, for Black folk, the possibility of doing something, if you will.astead herndonFor you all, like when you think about your time as a Democrat, what’s the times the party has made you the most proud?speaker 18Obama.speaker 19Obama.speaker 16Obama. And I think we all pulled together. That was the time that you really saw all of us as a race pull together to get him in.astead herndonAnd we should be clear. Like, we’re in Chicago. I mean, this was a place where it was specifically happening. What did it feel like in 2008 when that was happening? Do you remember how it felt for you?speaker 16It was like we were in control. We had power, you know?astead herndonThat’s what it felt like.speaker 8Yes, all they had worked for, you know.reginald robinsonI remember you and I being the only ones at the church that thought he could win.astead herndonPut that on the record. I was right early, y’all.reginald robinsonI can remember you and I arguing with your parents. Because they were like, it’s not going to happen. The Black man — it’s not going to happen.astead herndonI was like, I simply think it might.reginald robinsonAnd we were the only two saying, oh, he’s going to win. He’s going to win. And so I had to put that out there on the record.astead herndonI appreciate that, brother Reggie.speaker 4I believed he was going to win. I mean, because everybody was pulling everybody to go to the poll. This was the biggest turnout that we have ever — they said they were taking people off the street, you know, you got to go vote.astead herndonI’m wondering, with Trump’s election and the four years that came after that, did it cause you to think differently about the Obama years before that? Or were those separate events?speaker 8They were separate.astead herndonThose are separate?speaker 8I think it was separate.astead herndonIn 2016, one of the reasons it did happen is because you saw a big dropoff in some Black turnout from 2012 to 2016. Even the last recent midterms — one of the low points for the Democrats in what was otherwise a pretty good year was that Black people don’t seem to have the same relationship with the Democratic Party. Do you think the relationship between Black people and Democrats are changing? Or as Democrats, do you think maybe that’s just one cycle or another, but this is a kind of connection that will last?speaker 8I think it’s about the generation that’s doing the voting or not voting. You know, and then you have to remember, we were there, most of us, during the ‘70s and the ‘60s, you know. And we were there, watching all about the marches and everything. And they don’t really know about that. It’s not being taught in school.astead herndonYou think the dropoff in Democrats might be a generational thing?speaker 8Yes.astead herndonIf there was an issue that matters to you that you want Democrats to deliver on, what is it?speaker 9Well, you have, of course, the economy, which they’re looking out for. And you have crime. And really —astead herndonYou feel like they’re looking out for that?speaker 9Hmm. Well, I think that’s the frustration. Most of them, they advocate for these particular issues. But the problem is, you just don’t see much of any change, any results. So that’s what turns off a lot of people from politics.They just give up, because the parents, even though they vote, it seems like their vote is not making a difference. So that’s the struggle there. So sometimes it’s about pushing your agenda, letting people know what you’re doing.Because you have another voice on the other side. Basically, they’re screaming, saying the Democrats are not doing anything. And they scream real loud. And of course, the louder they scream, that’s the voice we hear.And ultimately, a lot of people believe that. So the Democrats really have to do a better job of basically vocalizing what they’re doing, showing the results. But to answer your question, yes, I believe they’re making an effort. But everybody at this table knows it’s almost impossible to get anything done in Congress.speaker 8Yes.speaker 9And that’s where the fight is, and that’s what it is basically — a fight. And if you don’t have the patience to endure the fight, you give up. But I think we have to encourage. You talk about generation. Encourage the next generation to stay in the fight.speaker 8Yes.astead herndonOne of the things that comes up as we talk to people is they feel less and less interested in politics. Do you feel people backing away from the fight? It does feel like some of that is in the air.speaker 9I mean, I won’t call names, but you talk to certain young people, and they didn’t even vote. I say, how do you not vote in the presidential election?speaker 1I’m an election judge, and I’ve been one for years. And I could physically see where the turnout was, like, null and void, you know. And that was both for young people and the older people. They were not coming out to vote.astead herndonYeah. A question I had was, do you feel proud to be a Democrat? Do you feel proud to be an American?[INTERPOSING VOICES]reginald robinsonI’ve been all over the world, man. I can tell you, this is the best thing going — American. Is everything great here? No. Could things be better? Yes. The seniors, they price-gouging on the medicine, and the rich are getting richer. It’s like, how much money do you need?Do I feel proud to be a Democrat? I wish I could be an independent, you know. But we really don’t have representation in this region with independents. So I have to go other — I can never be a Republican, especially now, because of anybody that supported Trump and all the foolishness and lies that he told — it’s no matter what your message is.Like, even everybody on the ticket right now that’s running — you all supported him. And he lied openly, and you believed the lie, and you supported him and you backed him. So for me, you can never get anything from me because of that.And so I can’t say — I’m not going to say lesser of two evils, but I will not — because of people died for me to have this right, I have to vote. You know, and so Democrat is the closest I can go.speakerRight. Right.astead herndonY’all, thank you so much. We’re going to talk to some more folks, but I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.speaker 20I know Astead from school, I guess.pashal mabryI know Astead from the church, but it’s like family, you know.christopher hodgesKind of grew up together. His father is one of my mentors. Yes, sir.astead herndonI gathered a group of younger Black people at the same dining room table. Would you all consider yourselves Democrats?speakersYes.astead herndonHave you always considered yourself Democrats?speakersYes.astead herndonI’ll ask this question, the same question I asked the older generation before y’all. Why do you think Black people vote in such numbers for the Democratic Party? It’s unique. Like, among demographic groups in America, nobody votes for one party in this big of a number. Why do you think Black people vote for Democrats so consistently?danielleI think it’s what you’re taught, kind of, within your family, that this is what you are. And so you don’t go any way different from it. So you’re like, my mom was a Democrat, so I’m going to be that, without really looking into the facts and finding out for yourself what you really want to be.pashal mabryI do agree with Danielle. This is, like, the household is Democrat. But also, there’s a thought that Black people are not Republicans. It’s just the bottom line.And Republicans as for the rich people. And you have all of those tags along with being a Republican. And it’s all about money and not service.astead herndonThis came up in the last one, too, and I thought it was really interesting. Because sometimes you see Black folks say, I think people vote for Democrats because Republicans are racist. But that’s not what the explanation you gave or the people last time. It was that it’s there for rich people.pashal mabryYeah.astead herndonYou think it’s much more of a class thing than it is a race thing.pashal mabryYeah, it’s beneficial to the higher class, those with more money.astead herndonMm-hmm.speaker 21I think the Democratic Party focuses more on our interests, the rights of the Constitution. Because we didn’t always have rights, so the Democratic Party seems to focus more with our interests.astead herndonYou’re saying there’s an understanding that Black people can lose rights, and there’s something about the Democrats that seem like they’re at least safeguarding some of it. OK. And I think this is a thing I specifically wanted to focus on with this group. In the last one, we really talked about, the arc of civil rights movements through Obama and how they feel that sense of pride.And I kind of want to think about post-Obama, and like, how has that been, in terms of shifting a relationship — or has it shifted in the relationship with Democrats? I think about that high point of 2008, the hope, for younger folks, especially — do you also feel like that?christopher hodgesI know I’ve been let down by Obama. Do you hear me?I’ve been heavily —astead herndonWhy? Why?christopher hodgesI feel as though he could have did more for us. I feel as though he — specifically Chicagoans. That’s where he comes from. After seeing Trump and all that he did, it was like, man, Obama, you could have did the same thing. You could have been rogue, too, before your people.And the fact that he did not do it, or even spoke towards doing it. It was disheartening, and it affected a lot of the mentees that I got trying to push them to vote, to even vote anymore.astead herndonWhat do you mean?christopher hodgesLike, the young people that I’m trying to push to start back voting was upset at the movement of Obama, so they stopped voting altogether. They lost faith in the political system.astead herndonThere is a kind of unspoken thing about Obama era — I think it’s kind of especially true in Chicago — that it wasn’t meeting some of expectations. But it’s especially spoken in this group, and it’s not spoken in the last group, right? They speak about just the dignity of him in office, about the power of having a Black family in that place. What I hear differently from younger people is a “OK, what else?”And that’s what I want to hear from you. What is the else? Democrats talk about Blackness a lot more. They talk about race a lot more. That’s not — it’s not clear to me that that’s what people want, but is it? I don’t know. But they definitely say the words more.speaker 20I mean, if you’re not, like, pandering and talking about hot sauce in your bag, you know —I think if you’re being, like, real and genuine, I think people can pick up on it. It’s like, yes, you want to know that your interest is heard, but then I don’t — kind of like maybe Biden — I think that was a lot of people’s gripe, that he was kind of just maybe pandering. And then, when he was in office, it was like, OK, I got your vote, but then went somewhere else.pashal mabryI mean, it’s talked about more, which is fine. You know, and so now, the issue is before us. But we’re still taking a lot of L’s in a lot of areas with violence, police, even education. So it’s — yeah, we’re talking about it. But then what?Because in this case, we’re still on the losing end, if not in a worse state than before when it wasn’t talked about. Because now that it’s talked about, we’re losing some of the ground that civil rights movement gained for us. So I just think that talking about it — yeah, it’s good, but now what?astead herndonAs a followup to the first question I asked about why do you think Black people vote for Democrats in such numbers, do you think that’s changing? I mean, do you think the relationship between the Black people and the party is changing?pashal mabryThe sad part about it is — yes, even though my job — like, these younger — like, so you have more Black people that are owning their own businesses. They’re entrepreneurs. And so the benefit that they’re seeing is that, oh, it’s helping me financially. And so —astead herndonTo vote Republican.pashal mabryYes. And so you know, what have they done for me? The Republican Party can give me these tax cuts and give me this and give me that. It boils down to those type of issues. And then, they look at the Democratic party, and they’re like, well, Biden — I mean, look at this. We got all these immigrants. He ain’t doing this. He ain’t doing that. But it’s always the plus for the Republican side, because it’s benefiting them tangibly.christopher hodgesMy fear is that a lot of young Democrats are leaning towards Republican, because of the financial gain that they got during the pandemic, of course. And yeah, those checks, thank you. But my fear is the blindfold to what really is happening like affirmative action — no one’s saying anything about that.10 years from now, we’re going to feel that. You’re going to see that in these jobs. You’re going to see all of that. But if we don’t say anything about that now, that will be a problem.speaker 20Not to harp on the affirmative action thing, but I think it kind of goes to your point, though, too, and explaining. Because that changed through the Supreme Court. So like, you kind of have to educate, like, the young people as well, like, that process, so then they’re not once again disappointed in our Demo —astead herndonRight, or student loans, right? Knocked down by the Supreme Court, but there’s a lot of people holding it against Biden — that he didn’t make student loans go away, right?speaker 20But — and Biden, like, he kind of ran on that, but I think maybe that’s how he got a lot of the millennials. We’re like, oh, student loans, but then we, all of us, like, didn’t understand, OK, it could get blocked. And what power does he really have? And then, so a lot of people are disappointed with Biden because of that. They’re like, if he runs again, I still have tons of student loan debt. So he’s not getting my vote.astead herndonYeah.danielleOur generation — and not everybody in this room, but we are more so about self, and what is it going to do for me. And so when they’re looking at these candidates, it’s really like, how do I benefit this? Instead of what Chris said — thinking about 10 years from now, how this will affect us, we’re thinking about how this is going to affect me right now. And right now, it feels good, because I got money in my pocket. But now, here we are three years later, and prices for gas and milk are $20. So we didn’t think about how this would affect us later on. We just thought, oh, this feels good now.astead herndonJoe Biden is 80 years old. He’s running for re-election. I get that — I get the options of the choice. I’m saying, how do you feel about that?pashal mabryI don’t know. Not “I don’t know.” It makes me think about, if something were to happen, then who am I looking at as next in line? And so then, it’s like, you know. So it brings it to reality, the role of the vice president —astead herndonIt’s a good question, y’all. Like —speaker 21The interesting thing for me is, I had this whole plan, right? I had this plan of, OK, Biden can beat Trump. Biden will run for one term. And then, Kamala would be next in line. And it didn’t happen that way. Kamala didn’t — Kamala didn’t —pashal mabryKamala didn’t.She did. That’s it. That’s it.speaker 20Period.speaker 21Everything is this real uncomfortable laugh at the end of every statement, and it just — part of it — part of it is that she wasn’t used correctly, and part of it is who she is.astead herndonBut you thought Biden would be one term, and he was setting up the next generation.speaker 21— setting up the next generation. I was not prepared for —astead herndonTo be back here.speaker 21— to be back here. I was not prepared for that.pashal mabry— almost like an impossible thought. We would never see Biden and Trump again.speaker 20Ever.pashal mabryThat just — we never —speaker 21Just, we just kind of thought we needed Biden for that moment, that he was our best shot of beating Trump.astead herndonSpecific to progressives, like, we think of the Bernies of the world. You think of national progressive leaders. They’ve really struggled to win over Black people. What is it about progressive politics that has somehow, at least at the top levels, not fully mixed with Black communities?christopher hodgesI think because a lot of Black people are religious. And that’s where a lot of —astead herndonWhat do you mean? Say, be more specific. Like, what do you mean?christopher hodgesOK, let’s say women who want to have abortion. Progressive believes that that’s what you can do. But there are a lot of Black people that don’t believe — “That’s wrong. The Bible says that’s wrong.”But you’re taking away the power to choose. God didn’t even do that to you. So for you to take away their power to choose, you’re just as wrong as them. You’re being God to them.pashal mabryYou know, we’re in the same boat with this perspective, especially when you get to abortion. And it’s like people are absolutely shocked to believe that I am saying that the woman should have a choice. Like, it’s like can you be saved and say this? Absolutely.Because to your point, Chris, we all have choice. Now, I’m not saying I believe in it. I’m not saying that I think it’s right. But you got a choice to make.astead herndonIf it’s Trump versus Biden again, do you know how you would vote?pashal mabryIt’s OK.christopher hodgesSo, so how I will vote — right now, in this, I am very, very torn. I cannot vote for Trump — I cannot — and face tomorrow and wake up and feel like I’m a person, a human. I can’t do that.But also, voting for Biden — it also brings concern to my life as well. That’s my thing.speaker 22Biden.speaker 21Yeah, absolutely, Biden.pashal mabryI’m going with Biden. I’m with Chris. I cannot do Trump.speaker 20I would go for Biden as well.danielleI probably would not vote for either.pashal mabryOoh, you’re not going to vote, sis?danielleI don’t want either one, so it’s like —pashal mabryIt’s worse not to vote at all.danielleBut it’s like, am I going to vote for someone who I absolutely don’t want, and then vote for someone who I really don’t want either?speaker 20So what’s the alternative? [INTERPOSING VOICES]danielleThey are, but it won’t be because of me. [LAUGHS]pashal mabryBut let’s — so it’s going to be because of a plethora of youths.astead herndonDo you feel like you’re a Democrat more because of what Democrats do, or more because of what Republicans do?speakerOoh.speaker 20More because of what Republicans do.[INTERPOSING VOICES]christopher hodgesSomeone write that down.pashal mabryBut yeah, that’s a good one. Probably more because of what Republicans do. And I don’t line up with that.speaker 20I would say because of what Democrats do.astead herndonYeah.speaker 20Yeah.astead herndonThat’s the closest we’ll get to pride.astead herndonHand-raise if you consider yourself a Democrat. So that’s about 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 out of the nine of us. Would you consider yourself a Republican? 1 — would you consider yourself an independent?speaker 23I think depending on the issue.astead herndonDepending on the issue. OK, so we got two. For you, Darrell, you said you’re a Republican. Have you always been a Republican?darrellAlways.astead herndonWhat makes you a Republican? What made you a Republican?darrellLike, generally, I think those things vary by state. For us, you know what I’m saying? Why would I vote against myself? And in my community, and where I’m from, the Republican Party does a lot for Black people and a lot for business.astead herndonWhere are you from?darrellIndiana.astead herndonSo it’s a state that has Republicans in power, has had Republicans in power for a long time. You’re saying that leads you to be more interested in voting for Republicans.darrellAbsolutely. Why would I vote against myself or vote against my interest?speaker 23The financial mobility. The Republican Party preaches somewhat of this concept of “strap up your bootstraps” and kind of will your own way and to make your own way as far as financially. The financial mobility that they say that’s out there — I think that appeals to more men, and disenfranchised, that want to take another step financially within their community.So you’re telling me that I can be a businessowner and you can give me the steps to be there. I can be more efficient. I can have more economic wealth in my own community. That is appealing to some people. I think that’s kind of a reason that might be appealing to them. Well, another thing is that I honestly feel that the Democratic Party has forgotten about the Black male.astead herndonIn what way?speaker 23What I mean by that is that one of the major demographics that we have is our African-American women. They’re amazing. They’re very strong. They come out to the polls.But as African-American men, sometimes we get left. Like, our needs, our desires, our wants are not always in account. We kind of get pushed to the side. I think sometimes that might be something that men are looking at, that our needs are not being taken care of. Like, our matters are not being resolved.astead herndonI mean, Democrats say, in nearly every speech now, Black women are the bedrocks of democracy, or there needs to be specific focus on them as the anchors of the party. I mean, I heard you say that you think that sometimes the downstream of that can feel like Black men are absent. Do the rest of you all feel like Black men are —reginald robinsonWhy are we looking for the Democratic party or any kind of party to give you validation? Why do you need these — you a man, bro. If you want to feel a certain way or you want to do something in your community, if you want to make money, then you should do it.astead herndon[INAUDIBLE] just want to be spoken to, though, right? Like, that’s not unique to Black men. Right? That’s not unique to one specific group. Voters want politicians to speak to those concerns.reginald robinsonThat’s what I’m saying. That’s the point of being politicians. My job is to make money so that I could buy my way of what I want. I don’t want to ask you or you to tell me what I think. I want to pay you to speak for what I think.astead herndonYeah. Go ahead, Chris.christopher hodgesI also wanted to tag on to a lot of Black men. Democrats do not cater to men, because the squeaky wheel get the oil. We don’t talk often. We don’t speak up. We don’t say anything.Women say — they — I’m a woman. I can’t get this raise. They speak up. So of course, they’re going to cater to who’s going to speak up. And the number ratio towards women versus men is, who would you spend more of your money to cater towards? You’re going to cater towards the women.astead herndonThere’s also been a big change in how the Democratic Party talks about gender and sexuality and other issues over the last five, six years, right? A MeToo movement has completely upended language around gender and gender roles. Embrace of LGBTQ rights, about transgender identity, has changed the way the party talks about certain issues. Do you think that has shifted the party’s relationship with Black men?reginald robinsonYes. It has. This reality of it, especially in inner cities — we have a lot of people that can’t pull themselves up, whatever the circumstances are. So we have a lot of Black men that are essentially zombies in their neighborhoods. And so with a lack of wisdom or knowledge to get to that point, they’re not even in the picture.And then, some that are in the picture — they feel that they’re left out, because the reality of it is when you look at the homosexual movement or LGBTQ or however you want to put it, the reality of it is, they get more equity than Black men in some cases. But part of that is because of the movement that they have and that base. And so their base make noise.And so if we collectively got together perhaps, we can make that noise. But unfortunately, sometimes we can’t get together for whatever reason. You know, it’s like 10 churches on one street in the same neighborhood. And collectively, we can’t work together to do God’s mission.astead herndonYou know, I think the zombie point is interesting. That makes me think about, obviously, joblessness, criminal justice. If there was a specific issue that you think matters most to Black men, what would you think that is? It’s a mass generalization, I know.astead’s fatherEconomic empowerment would be one of the primary things, but also spiritual enlightenment. And when I say that, I’m speaking specifically to coming to a knowledge of who we are, what our design is based upon the biblical understanding of truth and manhood. Because manhood — I do think we have to fight for manhood.Because it’s being pulled away and redefined by all these different groups. And I do believe that Black men, we have to take our voice back and not be passive, and be more deliberate — and particularly Christian Black men — being very deliberate about discipleship, but also economic empowerment. I think those two things are critical for us.astead herndonWell, let me ask then about the current figures. Right? One about Trump and specific to his appeal, or lack of appeal, maybe, to Black men. But Trump is someone who has done more outreach to Black men specifically, whether that be First Step Act and kind of criminal justice reform openness, whether that be hitting up every rapper who’s ever lived.christopher hodgesAnd he’s getting a response for it, too.astead herndonDo you feel like that?christopher hodgesA lot of stuff that a lot of Black men may be going towards Trump now is because what he said he did. His word was his bond. And that’s a lot of men’s value. What he said he would do — Obama ran because he was Black and saying all this Black stuff. But when he took office, oh, he can’t do that no more.astead herndonThis is spicy, Chris.christopher hodgesHe’s president. But you ran from that, and you got — you won because of that. But when you got there, you couldn’t do that.speaker 23So what did he say that he was going to do that he actually — he did?christopher hodgesWho?speaker 23Trump, that didn’t —christopher hodgesBuild the wall.speaker 23Like that’s a good thing?christopher hodgesNo, I ain’t saying it was a good thing. That’s not the point.astead herndonIt’s not actually about the value judgment of what he did. It’s the fact that it’s a person willing to do what they say they do.christopher hodgesAnd I want to add just one more point. I want to add this one more point. Under Trump’s administration, I found a whole lot of Black men starting businesses.speaker 21Yeah, but you understand that had nothing to do with Trump. That had nothing — that had nothing — that had nothing to do with Trump. But that’s Republican — whenever there’s a Republican in charge, they make it easy. They get rid of the regulations. That’s always — it’s always.[ARGUING]christopher hodgesIt’s just —reginald robinsonYou got to give him the credit.christopher hodges— if Obama did —astead herndonAbsolutely. Twice?reginald robinsonNo.astead herndonOnly the first time?reginald robinson(LAUGHING) We ain’t voted yet, [INAUDIBLE] only the first time.astead herndonDid you vote for him, George?georgeNo.astead herndonOne thing we haven’t talked about is kind of wars, globally, that’s kind of, in the last month, has really taken up a bunch of the space. And one of the ways it’s really affecting domestic politics is Joe Biden is going to ask Congress for close to $100 billion for Ukraine for Israel. And a place that you see him having trouble kind of pitching that is among Black communities. Right?Like, that there is less support sometimes for that amount of money going abroad. Quickly, I’m curious — Black men and Black people have been a very domestic-focused electorate, right? How, with what is happening globally right now — how does that — does that impact the way you think about next year’s election? And what do you think about the prospect of how much money America spends to countries abroad? Because people like Donald Trump are going to make that America First — that’s going to be one of those arguments that he’s laying out.reginald robinsonIt should be.speakerI agree. It should be.reginald robinson— the war is not abroad, not America First?astead herndonThat’s a fine answer. I can see you’re saying. I’m saying — I’m saying —reginald robinsonSo right now, you’re talking about allocating hundreds of millions of dollars to Ukraine and Israel. And yet, you have all these folk coming across the border, and you go right there, right down the street to Chicago, where you have people in the police departments and all that.And unfortunately, sometimes our government, whether it’s Democrat or Republican, we don’t take care of home base. We have a lot of places how they can put those funds and help folk out, you know. But right now, the focus is over there. And I think you can do — you can multitask. Unfortunately, we’re not.christopher hodgesI encourage us to take the stance of the airlines. Put your mask on first, and then go and help somebody else put their mask on. Because here’s the deal. If you don’t put your — we will not survive.And we pay all this money to all these people. It’s going to be $25 per [INAUDIBLE]. And who is that going to affect the most?speakerWe don’t create any —christopher hodgesIt’s going to affect Black people most.astead herndonOK, let’s get back to Biden, though.What’s the word on Biden?speakerHe’s too old.speaker 23And we talk about the negatives of Trump often, but we don’t talk about the negatives of Biden. In a world of today’s politics where most policies are written by think tanks and groups of people, Biden handwrote a policy that resulted in more Black people being locked up than ever in the history of America. I mean, just —astead herndonFor Donald Trump to succeed next year, specifically when we talk about Black men, he basically needs, like, 1 out of 4, 25 percent of Black men who will vote, to vote for him. Do you think that’s possible?speakerYes.I’m hoping they lock him up.reginald robinsonI’m not going to lie. I think the [INAUDIBLE] going to slide in there. [LAUGHS]speaker— still be president from prison.reginald robinsonYeah. I think he’s going to be — I think it’s doable, but I don’t think he’s going to get the ticket. I really don’t.speakerYes, I think he can get 25 percent.[INTERPOSING VOICES]astead herndonFirst question — just work with me that he’s the nominee. Just let’s assume he’s the nominee.speakerYes, assuming —astead herndonAssuming he’s the nominee, do you think that Trump can win 1 out of 4 Black men?astead’s fatherYes, there’s two factors. One is the economic factor, in terms of him pushing for entrepreneurial and all those types of things. The other thing is that he’s dealing with straight men. He’s not pushing the gay agenda openly. And that’s another elephant in the room when it comes to brothers, you know. And so he has two things working for him that will appeal to 1 out of 4.speaker 24We carry the weight of a lot. And politicians know it, right? That if we’re voting, we’re turning the tides. Oftentimes, we’re that extra whatever percentage that will take that particular candidate over the top to win.speaker 25Although men are still having a difficult time voting. Yeah. That, yeah. But we’ve come — it just seems like we’re still fumbling, and not us fumbling, but the same issues are before us. And so Black women have had to shoulder that. And I don’t think that we shoulder it like we’re shouldering it. I just think we do it. We just do what we do. And that’s all.elisa gutierrezWe’re as particularly interested, too, in Black men who decide to vote for Trump. And I guess what do you all think is the appeal there? Do you get it? Do you — do you not get it? What do you think is the reason that they’re —speaker 26You know, you have the Black men who makes it, who’s the CEO, who’s successful. And then, the things that Trump stands for financially benefits them. So then that’s the Black man that’s voting for Trump. The Black man that hasn’t experienced —speaker 27I don’t think that’s the only Black man that’s voting for Trump at all.speaker 26That’s one of them. You can go ahead.speaker 27I think — so if you say uneducated, because uneducated — I think that’s the thing. That’s it, right? That when you think about the lived experience with women and men, there was a burdening. There was a shouldering that we had to do. But we got education, right?We — also think once we talk about the fairness of this country, in my approximation, I think that the problem is, we believed the gendered lie that a man would be up here and that women do what they do. And I think that maybe we propped up the belief that as a man, you would have certain advantages, maybe, and that hasn’t happened for Black men.And I do think that it’s created a question of, what do I do in this moment? And you know, Trump is very demonstrative against women in a way that affirms manhood, right? And so again, if you’re feeling like you’re discarded and nothing’s working for you, that’s going to appeal that language, right? It’s really going to appeal to you.But I think the more insidious part of it is that, you know, I think it really is the juxtaposition of the life. Like, you women had it. You’re making money. You’re doing all things that I could never do. Right?And so I know that on the higher end, but I think when anyone white or Black makes money, they want that tax break. I have not met a CEO who don’t want a tax break. Right?So I don’t know if we could just put it on just Black men who make money. But I think that when you mitigate and talk about — take away education, take away just privileges, and that’s working, right? Those are things that we’re able to do as women in a way that just hasn’t happened in an equitable sense, right? So it’s literally the competition of things.And I think — I think Black men, when we — Black mothers — we maybe gave wrong lessons to the children. Because I think it’s this idea that I was — as a man, I was supposed to have this. This is what I was owed. This is what I was due.speaker 28Is that what your mother told you?speaker 24One of the things that you’ll hear him say all the time, him being Trump, is even if he has all his different litigation issues, he’ll say they’re coming after me. And they’re coming — no, and not just that they will. By way of coming after me, they are coming after you. When they attack me, they’re attacking you.That definitely maybe pulls on the desires of becoming for some Black men. And if this man is saying, this powerful man is saying, I’ve got you, I understand that they have not been there for you, and I — and you see how they’re attacking me, that’s how they’re attacking you, and I’m going to stop them from attacking me. And that’ll also stop them from attacking you. I’m always scared to say it, but less educated, but if you are not astute, if you’re not educating yourself, then what he says becomes golden.speaker 20Yeah. I think even just on a simpler level, like, when he ran on make America great again, I think not just on race and gender, that whole slogan to me was almost like, people wanting to get their, like, so-called power back. And so then, as a Black woman, it’s like, race-wise, what do you mean make America great again? Like, what time period are you talking about? Because in the ‘50s, I don’t want to go — for me.And then, even for men, like you were saying, like, we now have done so much. And so like, if you are the man who’s like, actually, I thought I supposed to be in a different place, and I see my woman counterpart, I’m trying to make America great again to reverse the tide and get my power back.elisa gutierrezSo I hear, like, that it seems like, in this case, why you see Black men voting for Trump is that it comes from a place of self-interest, of wanting to — from your perspective, and choosing the thing that they think is going to best benefit them. I guess I’m wondering who you all see as the strongest advocates for Black women.speaker 29For Black women?speaker 30No one.speaker 31Right.angelica herndonOurselves! We are our greatest advocates.speaker 32Black women are advocates for themselves.[INTERPOSING VOICES]speaker 20Because we talked about, like — I’m going to butcher her name — Kamala. We talked about her, and I think people thought something more of her, and I don’t — I don’t know if Black women saw that with her. I don’t have the answer to that. But I wonder, like, when we talk about that, if we saw her, like, in this.danielle— because she had that pearls and gym shoes thing, and you saw all women from sororities coming together with their pearls in their chucks. And they were like, oh, we’ve got someone that looks like us in there again, and they were hoping — like we said with Obama, they were expecting her to do so much.And we’ve seen nothing. And so now, it’s like, who speaks for us? I think people were thinking that she would be it. And that’s why we voted. So I honestly think she helped him pull that thing.Because there was no way without it. And so now that we don’t have what we expected, it’s kind of like, OK, well, there goes that. What’s next?speakerYeah.speaker 25Well, I think that when we talk about men, whether Black or white, I think that the thought of Kamala Harris being the president, it’s easy to see why it’s — that Black men could be going towards Trump.speakerYeah.speaker 25Because the thought, even when we deal with Biden and his age, and the thought is, OK, if something does happen, then this is going to be our president. I think that thought will drive many men, Black or white.astead herndonSo next year, and next year, for Trump to basically achieve his Black male goals, he needs to win 1 out of 4.speakerOh.Really?astead herndon1 out of 4 — if he wins 25 percent to 30 percent of Black men, it’ll be the highest rate of any Republican in modern history. Do you think he could win 1 out of 4 Black men?speakerYes.Yes, at this moment.Yes. We have a lot of praying to do.[INDISTINCT CONVERSATION]angelica herndonI have Christmas pinwheel, coconut macaroons —astead herndon— to bake 13 different desserts.angelica herndon— fruit-filled shortbread, regular shortbread, pumpkin macaroons, cinnamon shortbread, lemon poppy seed shortbread, pound cake ginger molasses cookies, chocolate chip cookies, Oreo cheesecake, which is going to be like the triumph, and pecan brittle. Did I say walnut brownie?astead herndonNo.angelica herndonOK. [LAUGHS]astead herndonJust something slight. You know?archived recording 1So this is how you guys get to play — is if you like something, go ahead. You applaud. All that. We do not boo here. We do not boo. If you don’t like something, let the silence do a heavy lifting. OK?archived recording 1So beyond the talking points, is there a conviction moment for any of you or each of you about, this is what drove my commitment to the sanctity of human life?Donald Trump, who holds a near 50-point lead in the polls, did not attend. On Monday, Joe Biden, already the oldest sitting US president, celebrated his 81st birthday.And finally, to bake all of her desserts, my sister Angelica used 26 sticks of butter and 30 eggs. There are seven weeks in four days until the Iowa caucuses and 348 days until the general election.We’ll see you next week.“The Run-Up” is reported by me, Astead Herndon, and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O’Keefe, and Anna Foley. It’s edited by Rachel Dry, Lisa Tobin, and Frannie Carr Toth, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, and Elisheba Ittoop. It was mixed by Sophia Lanman and fact-checked by Caitlin Love.Special thanks to Paula Szuchman, Sam Dolnick, Larissa Anderson, David Halbfinger, Mahima Chablani, Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddy Masiello, and Akilah Townsend. Do you have questions about the 2024 election? We’re working on a new question-and-answer segment, and we want to hear from you.Email us at therunup@nytimes.com. That’s therunup@nytimes.com. And finally, if you like the show and want to get updates on latest episodes, follow our feed wherever you get your podcasts.Thanks for listening, y’all.
